Curse

Aeon_Xin · Nov 13, 2005, 05:26 AM // 05:26

The poll is pretty much done, anyone going to vote already has.
Any point made for or against the patch, has probably been covered, and no one is really switching sides.

I thought I'd do something a little more constructive. Or atleast attempt it.

I think a good replacement for the apparently controversial patch would be a good idea, and this is my idea for the patch.

Delete, and start over,
If one, or any group of monsters falls to a certain amount of life, say half, let the monster compare it's life to yours, if you're under half, it stays and fights, if not, it runs.
It's goal, is to retrieve allies, and runs towards the nearest group of monsters for backup/cover.
Maybe give it a slight pause, to realistically have time to locate a group.
Maybe give it a range to run, or only ally it with like monsters, or give it an ally list since some monsters fight amongst themselves.

Basically, give the monsters an idea if they are going to win or need to tactically retreat, as many players do on occasion.

So called Nukers won't lose their precious damage factor, and the monster does have improved AI, in that if it thinks it can't kill you on it's own, it'll get help.
It will affect all classes that are fighting, and is triggered by no one skill.
It will also raise the difficulty of ALL classes farming.(which seems to be the main reason it happened in the first place)

I think it's a good meet you half way approach to all of the arguments for, and against, the new AI.
All rational input is welcome, but please don't take parts out of context.

*edit

I kinda suspected people would rather argue than to discuss solutions.
Alot of people here are so obstinant.
Still, it hasn't been real long.

Roza · Nov 13, 2005, 06:16 AM // 06:16

This would upset even more players, as this would make things harder for everybody. Monsters running away to take cover with other groups may make those groups really hard to kill. Some missions might become very, very hard this way. It would mean that you would have to make sure monsters did not get away (slowing stuff).

Atm, you only fight specific groups at a time, or at least you try to make sure you do (except when you are a beserking self-mending paladin, of course

). If groups start 'merging this way', this basic tactic will become much harder. This would not work the way the pve game is set up right now. Maybe this would work for stuff in the new chapter though.

Still, a constructive topic. For a change.

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Nov 13, 2005, 06:23 AM // 06:23

This is a very good suggestion!
It would certainly spice up the challenge factor of PvE tremendously!

/Agreed
/Signed

Aeon_Xin · Nov 13, 2005, 06:35 AM // 06:35

Thanks.

I'm just trying to formulate an idea that would be fair to everyone, and be logical, maybe the ally thing is too much.

I mainly want to see any monster run/sidestep, from any given skill type, aside from the dodge or miss that already happens in the game. It was easy to miss with an Aoe, you click the wrong monster, one in motion, and the thing falls behind him, or monsters change targets and take after your healer.

One other idea I think would be neat also, would be for the original target to take the full brunt of any aoe, but go running from his teamates insanely(chicken with his head cut off). The spell tracks him for the full ten seconds.
Spell isn't wasted, possibly worth the mana, and we've seen that the monsters can run off haphazardly

Any other monsters around the area step out of the blaze as it is already.

It's like someone in a battle that's on fire, but it burns bad enough so that he doesn't care about fighting, runs off hoping they're near a river or something. We've all seen that in the movies, a shrill scream or roar for each creature would do wonders for how entertaining it is.

*Edit. Are there commands for Henchmen? DEfensive, agressive, and such? Don't stand in the lava/poison wamp? I didn't search yet, but if there's something like that in any game I usually stumble onto it by now. If yes, just please point. If I find it before a reply I'll delete this.

kendaki · Nov 13, 2005, 07:25 AM // 07:25

I like this idea. Although as said before teaming up with other groups would make aggro managment a problem. I think what they should do is either add a delay to their reaction to the AoE damage or as you said with DOT AoE spells have them follow their initial target as they run so at least one monster would take full effect of the spell. In terms of comparison to PvP players reactions to the spells (depending on the player) it takes a moment to realize that you're taking damage from an AoE spell before you move, other times they just dont care and rely on healers to deal with the damage dealt to them as they focus on their prey. So this is deffinately a good start to a way to fix this problem.

Aeon_Xin · Nov 13, 2005, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by kendaki

I like this idea. Although as said before teaming up with other groups would make aggro managment a problem. I think what they should do is either add a delay to their reaction to the AoE damage or as you said with DOT AoE spells have them follow their initial target as they run so at least one monster would take full effect of the spell. In terms of comparison to PvP players reactions to the spells (depending on the player) it takes a moment to realize that you're taking damage from an AoE spell before you move, other times they just dont care and rely on healers to deal with the damage dealt to them as they focus on their prey. So this is deffinately a good start to a way to fix this problem.

I kinda like the tracking Idea and how it would relate to PvP, cause if my teamate didn't run the hell away from me with something like that floating over his head, well, he'd become quite an unpopular team-mate in a hurry.

Not serious, but while the monster runs away, he runs by other non agro monsters, they aggro on him, like we would want to on that PvP teamate that didn't run off to save us the trouble. But if non agro's did get hit by that monster, they'd have to not aggro at us, that's the point I was getting to.

Even a rollback on the sidestepping things would not matter one way or another.

Just make that one run after 2 seconds damage(less group damage than they take now), arms flailing in the air above him, a whole new animation. Someone might think the screams and flailing chicken run too greusom, I think it'd be just funny.

Poof, no more aoeing of groups.

kendaki · Nov 13, 2005, 07:40 AM // 07:40

Lol I deffinately agree. Although hard to prevent moving into your teamates with the spell following you sacrificing yourself for the sake of the party would deffinately be the best move in that situation. Not only that but it could inspire some useful tactics for ele's to use. Such as nuking one warrior so he runs away, then nuking another so he runs away, opening the opposing teams casters up for a full on assult. Although they could employ the same tactic on you lol so it just depends

Ileania · Nov 13, 2005, 08:32 AM // 08:32

lmao while this would make some people happy it seems some just dont want change... actually from what Ive gathered so far most on here dont want a change. My only problem with this is it sound like it could take a long time to get anywhere near right.... can that be done without uberflaws?

Aeon_Xin · Nov 13, 2005, 08:55 AM // 08:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ileania

lmao while this would make some people happy it seems some just dont want change... actually from what Ive gathered so far most on here dont want a change. My only problem with this is it sound like it could take a long time to get anywhere near right.... can that be done without uberflaws?

As far as tracking firestorm(aoe of coice for me at the moment)

I think so, it would involve restructuring the reaction of one spell, by one monster, not a croud. They could even have him run off, just outside the agro bubble, and then duck cover and roll(is that how they taught it in grade school? Man, if i'm ever on fire, i'm in big trouble) himself in the dirt/snow, whatever, till duration is up.

That stops him from running too far as to aggro others, or returning any time soon. A smokeing body, dead or not, would be a pretty neet effect also.

*edit, response to below*
I'm not a dev, programmer, or 3d artist, but it wouldn't be any different than a knockdown, as far as lag goes

Actually, it could do that. New AOE hits monster X. Monster X runs, When monster X reaches normal aggro bubble, X is knocked down for remaining duration.

That's using all in game animation that i've seen. He just folds under pressure.

Ileania · Nov 13, 2005, 08:59 AM // 08:59

i was just sayin im not sure how easy that would be to implement without alot of problems, such as them running by the common patrols...(theres alot of those) and how would that be on lagg....that kinda stuff..

Aeon_Xin · Nov 13, 2005, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ileania

i was just sayin im not sure how easy that would be to implement without alot of problems, such as them running by the common patrols...(theres alot of those) and how would that be on lagg....that kinda stuff..

It could be done with in game animations.

Random monster X gets targeted for AOE.
Monster X goes nuts and just runs,
When X gets as far as the normal small agro bubble, he gets hit with knockdown for remainder of duration.

I would still like to hear insane shrieks(fitting to each race) and see a smouldering body. I don't know alot of the current sounds, sometimes I play without, or with teamspeak on, so i miss alot.

Ileania · Nov 13, 2005, 06:15 PM // 18:15

lol some of the cretures make the funniest sounds though u should check it out

Perishiko ReLLiK · Nov 13, 2005, 06:26 PM // 18:26

I'm completely for this idea!

/signed.

I believe that snares are going to be used in pve some day! Hoo Raa for the change in dumb monsters!

Aeon_Xin · Nov 13, 2005, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perishiko ReLLiK

I'm completely for this idea!

/signed.

I believe that snares are going to be used in pve some day! Hoo Raa for the change in dumb monsters!

If you all like it, get everyone you know to come "sign". I do appreciate the vote of confidence.

Though Personally, I would rather keep the opinion of support or non support of the AI patch to the threads that are flames. I don't want fires to start in here.

Guardian of the Light · Nov 13, 2005, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roza

This would upset even more players, as this would make things harder for everybody. Monsters running away to take cover with other groups may make those groups really hard to kill. Some missions might become very, very hard this way. It would mean that you would have to make sure monsters did not get away (slowing stuff).

Atm, you only fight specific groups at a time, or at least you try to make sure you do (except when you are a beserking self-mending paladin, of course

). If groups start 'merging this way', this basic tactic will become much harder. This would not work the way the pve game is set up right now. Maybe this would work for stuff in the new chapter though.

Still, a constructive topic. For a change.

I agree with him
/notsigned

This will make some mission like thunderhead even harder

Aeon_Xin · Nov 13, 2005, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian of the Light

I agree with him
/notsigned

This will make some mission like thunderhead even harder

Edit to the first idea, you could make it so that only AOE victims will run to allies if it takes them down to half life(or whatever determined level).

But if you get them low(whatever pre determinded level) by normal fighting standards, so that they realize they're going to die already, and if they run they'll jsut get hit in the back, then minus the penalty(running away) for AoE use. Because when something gives up all hope and jsut wants to make sure you take as much damage as possible before it dies, there's no turning back.

That way it's not just ever increasing groups of monsters untill you die or get them all pinned in a corner. It equals out with skill for the first half, and mass damage the last half. You've hence, earned the right, to do things the easy way at that point.

IF you only get one creature down to that fight or flight point, and the others are still full, they'll run, proving that you need to improve your tactics to be able to use an AOE effectively.

Add that, those that do run away in the above sentence, become un-aggro when they reach allies, not to aggor even more allies.

I believe that sums up both ideas and both would work equally well, feel free to discuss any further flaws(not flame on us though), of either idea though.